Steve Chipman of CRM Switch and Sam Biardo of Technology Advisors discuss the high-level differences between these top CRM vendors. Topics include:
- Vendor Overviews
- Scope and Complexity of Business Needs
- Extending the CRM Database
- Native vs. Integrated Marketing Functionality
- The Consultant Ecosystems
- The HubSpot & Salesforce App Marketplaces
- Freemium vs. Only Pay-For
- Scope of Product Offerings
- AI Features
- Business Process Automation Tools
- The User Experience and Interface
Full Transcript
STEVE: Welcome to CRM Talk, the show that brings you the latest in CRM and CRM-related news and information. This is Steve Chipman, along with my co-host, Mr. Sam Biardo. Sam, how are you?
SAM: Steve, I’m doing great.
STEVE: Busy as always.
SAM: Always the crazy time here, yes.
STEVE: So I wanted to talk about, oh, before I bring up our topic, I think our longevity as podcasters might be limited due to this new technology from Google with NotebookLM. I shared that with you, didn’t, earlier, didn’t I?
SAM: Yes, you did.
STEVE: Pretty crazy. So what you can do now, for our listeners, is you can take any piece of content, you can upload it to NotebookLM, and then ask it to do a two-person podcast recording based on that subject. And it sounds pretty good.
SAM: But it’s not as funny.
STEVE: It’s not as funny, and it’s not human.
SAM: Right.
STEVE: So anyway, today I wanted to talk, I wanted to bring up a topic. This is a little bit self-serving because over here at CRM Switch, we do have a vendor-neutral, independent CRM consulting service. And two of the vendor solutions that float to the top a lot are Salesforce and HubSpot, which is not a big surprise because they’re both good solutions, well-run companies. They both have “cover the earth” marketing. I think Salesforce gets 8 million organic visitors to its website every month. HubSpot gets 11, so HubSpot actually does a little bit better. But both of these companies are amazing marketers, so everybody’s heard of them. But a lot of people don’t know which solution to go with. And there are a lot of reasons to select one over the other. And I should say that some companies still have both because they want to have Salesforce, but they want to have, they don’t want to have Pardot, so they have HubSpot. What, what are you finding out there in the marketplace these days just in terms of the volume of those two vendors?
SAM: Oh, well, through our integration framework, Starfish, we get leads for integrating into HubSpot pretty much once a week. Some type of integration. The most, the one that we’re actually just starting to build is tax software integration, because everyone wants to get taxes on their quotes, and so we’re going to build that.
STEVE: Oh, nice.
SAM: Yeah.
STEVE: And what, what other types of integrations can you think of off the top?
SAM: HubSpot marketing to tons of CRMs is, is one of the most common ones we see. And then HubSpot sales to different ERPs is a very common one we see as well.
STEVE: Oh, really? Okay. So that’s good to know because as HubSpot moves up market, gets more into the manufacturing sector, there’s definitely always going to be a demand for ERP integration.
SAM: Right. Absolutely, yeah.
STEVE: Speaking of which, that’s one of the, one of the things we wanted to talk about today are the high-level differences between the two systems. We can get into the weeds a bit. But interestingly, Ahrefs, which is a web analytics tool, has this new capability where you can put in a keyword or search term and it’ll come back and tell you of all the people that searched on that keyword, what the relative search intent was. So I thought just for the heck of it, I’ll throw HubSpot versus Salesforce or Salesforce versus HubSpot into this new capability. Doesn’t matter, but it came back with the fact that, according to at least their data, 80% of people that are searching for differences between those two products are looking at features. So a lot of people start with features, which is kind of interesting, because didn’t they always tell us that people buy benefits?
SAM: Right. Yeah. Exactly.
STEVE: So, and they’re not, they’re not really searching, pricing is even well low down. It’s 8%, user experience is 9%, but features is the biggie. But we’re, we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit about features, but wanted to talk about the high-level differences starting with where did these companies come from. And I’ll start with out on this coast. So Salesforce began in 1999. I think that was the year after SalesLogix began. And it started on Telegraph Hill in an apartment with a former Oracle sales exec named Marc Benioff and with Parker Harris. And to their credit, they are both with, still with the company. And similar story with HubSpot. Do you know, do you know about their origins?
SAM: Yeah, Brian Halligan and Dharmesh Shah started it in Massachusetts in Cambridge in 2006. And primarily started it as a marketing organization. They didn’t feel there was a good marketing solution out there and started building initially to just provide marketing services through a different type of selling model, not through consulting companies, but through agencies.
STEVE: Yeah, and interestingly, they didn’t even have email marketing in their first release. They, they put all of their focus on inbound and started that category. And I think at one point, and it wasn’t too long after their founding, the marketers said, “Hey, we got to have, we got to have list email marketing at least.” So they added that. And Salesforce started as a pure SFA tool. The original version, I remember, I can almost see it in my mind’s eye, was a basic sales tool, which kind of looked like Act on the web. So they definitely came from very different places. And they, they pursued a different approach over the years in terms of growth. My impression, and I’d love to hear yours, is that HubSpot has been much more about organic growth and building their own capabilities in. And Salesforce has been very acquisitive, where they’ve bought a lot of companies. And amazingly, they bought, they spent a lot of money on some companies that really you don’t even hear about anymore. I think they, for example, they bought the Steelbrick CPQ tool. I don’t even know if that went anywhere.
SAM: Right. Well, remember they also bought, gosh, the Indiana-based email marketing solution which…
STEVE: Oh, yes, so they got a two, they got a two-for deal on that because…
SAM: They got Pardot with it. Yeah.
STEVE: …ExactTarget had previously acquired Pardot, and then they got both.
SAM: But I don’t see ExactTarget unless they got folded in. You know, they they really, really promoted Pardot more than ExactTarget. Unless that got folded into Marketing Cloud. I don’t, not sure if it did or not.
STEVE: Yeah, and at the time, the differentiator was that Pardot was more of a B2B marketing tool, closer to HubSpot, and ExactTarget was more of a B2C tool. But to this day, one of the major high-level differences between the two is fully auto-automated, sorry, fully integrated functionality for marketing within HubSpot. And Salesforce, to my knowledge, doesn’t have 100% native marketing functionality. It still hooks to their acquisition or their past acquisitions and to third parties like HubSpot, ironically, like ActiveCampaign. So one of the things about HubSpot is if you, if you’ve got a strong marketing requirement and you don’t have super sophisticated data requirements, then HubSpot might be more attractive. But let’s talk about the sophistication and the complexity of organizations and why that might lead them a little bit more toward Salesforce. What are your thoughts on that?
SAM: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with the consulting channels that they’ve built. The, the delivery, the service delivery channels that both HubSpot and and Salesforce built out. If you, I, you think about it for a few minutes, the, the Salesforce was almost like the true consulting companies. They went after all the big consulting companies that were out there. They, then, those companies were more technical in nature. They could do more like development type work because in its infancy, Salesforce was sort of a technical product. And HubSpot went down the channel of we’re going to work with agencies and they’re just going to incorporate their marketing solution into our, our solution. So as they’re selling their agency service, they sell HubSpot along with it. And in general, those agencies were less technical in nature. And therefore, the product had to be less complex. So, typically, what I, what I’ve seen is that HubSpot as a product, you know, it can be made complex because of recent changes they made to the product in the past three, four years. But it’s, it’s, it doesn’t start from that. It starts from sort of a pre-configured set of features and functions that were of, that are, are available and can be turned on and configured, where Salesforce always had the ability to do that plus the ability to build whatever you needed inside of Salesforce.
STEVE: So interesting. So I never thought of that. You’re saying that HubSpot partially evolved around the level of technical capabilities of the channel, rather than…
SAM: I think they did, yeah. Because I know we’re, we’ve been, we were HubSpot partners for a few years, and it’s, it’s always tough because their model is really designed for an agency. If you’re not, if, if you’re not working with the company every quarter, they don’t feel you’re involved with the company. Where in a traditional CRM, if you’re involved with the company every quarter, you’re, you’re probably not doing a good thing because you’re not turning it over to your customer to do it. And so they, they, they sort of go, they sort of go in different directions from a attraction of a, of an implementing partner.
STEVE: And interesting, I did see a thread on Reddit where I was looking up on comparisons between the two products outside of feature comparisons. And there was one consultant who characterized it, I thought pretty well, and and they said that HubSpot has a higher floor, meaning it’s easier to get started, but that Salesforce has a much higher ceiling to the extent that you can take it to a much higher level in terms of integration and data management and reporting and field-level and record-level security. So, I would say that Salesforce, and as you said, it probably evolved to the technical capabilities of its channel, has all the tools that you would need as a, not just a database designer, but a business process designer with the, the Salesforce flows. I would say are clearly more sophisticated than HubSpot flows. HubSpot flows are much easier to use. You can put a, a marketer or junior admin in front of HubSpot workflows, they can, they can figure it out. You throw someone new in front of Salesforce flows, they’ll get confused in a big hurry. And people at some levels may never even master HubSpot flows. Would you concur with that?
SAM: Yeah, and I think the other thing is that if you look at, look at things like adding custom fields and custom objects to HubSpot, those were recent additions, maybe last two years or so. And, you know, that came in day one with Salesforce. So, even the philosophical components of, of, you know, adding custom fields, that in itself is a, is a difference between two products. And then and think about Salesforce where I can, I have, if I wanted to, I probably wouldn’t, but if I wanted to, I could really manipulate the UI to be in a very specific way that I want that UI to look for, for a particular customer, for example. Where in HubSpot, you really have very limited control of what the UI looks like. They have sort of a generic format that you can choose from, and then once you’re in that format, everything’s in that format.
STEVE: Yeah, and the, the custom object thing you mentioned. So back in the SalesLogix days, I believe that Pat Sullivan launched SalesLogix with the capability of adding custom tables. And then when Salesforce first came along, you couldn’t. And then you could, and then it became really easy to to do that, and almost everyone added custom tables. It was in every edition, you could put in what Salesforce calls objects. And over the years, having seen that initially with SalesLogix, when I met with different vendors in their infancy, I went down to Cupertino and I met with Sugar when it was still just, you know, five people. And I, we went, we did that Microsoft trip when they were launching Microsoft CRM. And in all cases, my, my immediate advice was, create the custom object capabilities, create the, because that’s going to open up your market so much. I, in fact, even, even Lars at at GreenRope, we did a podcast and I said, “So do you guys do custom objects?” He said, “No, but we should.” And sure enough, you know, six months later, they, they did. So HubSpot was a little bit of a Johnny-come-lately in terms of the custom objects, and you actually need to have an enterprise edition to add a custom object in HubSpot, whereas in Salesforce, even with their, their starter or whatever they’re calling their, their newest low, entry-level edition, you can create custom objects. So big, pretty big difference there if you want to extend out the CRM to other areas in the company. So let’s, so let’s talk a little bit more about the consultant ecosystems. At one point, Salesforce said, this was back in, I want to say 2001, they said the sales, they called it the Salesforce economy, and then they said, it will create, this they predicted this back, yeah, 2021, will create 9.3 million jobs and 1.6 trillion in new business revenues by 2026. I’m not sure where they are on that track, but it definitely does speak to the size of that, that ecosystem. And I’m, I’m going to imagine that HubSpot’s ecosystem is going to grow, grow pretty quickly over the next few years as their, their platform becomes more sophisticated and they get more buyers.
SAM: Right, and they could get, I think the thing that was limiting them, HubSpot, was the fact that they would come out with an API, and the API wouldn’t be as robust in the first release as you would expect it to be. So I remember specifically, I want to say it was the CPQ type stuff, where I was creating a quote, I couldn’t actually write to the quote table. I could only read from the quote table when the first API came out. And it sort of limited everybody because effectively, if I wanted to do my tax software, for example, I’d have to be able to write to that table to put it, to put in the tax at the line item level, for example. That’s just an example. And Salesforce, when they came out, their API, and I, I’m a little more technical, so I like to talk technical, but they did a brilliant job. If you remember with their API, the, the API kept changing because they kept adding features. And what they started inventing was the release number of the API. So the function of the API was limited by the release you’re on. So if you, if you went to the newest release, that may not work, but by passing it the release number, the API could behave differently based on, and still, still work in newer releases of Salesforce. And I thought that was just a brilliant idea. And they were the first ones to come up with that. They came up with that a long time ago.
STEVE: Wait, Salesforce or HubSpot?
SAM: Salesforce. 2005 or 2007 or something like that, they had that in the product, and it was like, that’s why it was so easy to upgrade because if you built something for an old version of Salesforce, it was backwardly compatible. So you didn’t, you weren’t always required to upgrade every one of your apps in your App Store. They weren’t tied to a release per se. And they could always work with the new release because of the way they designed the APIs.
STEVE: Very smart.
SAM: It was very smart.
STEVE: So let us, let’s talk about not, not just talking to the CRMs from the outside, but actually embedding functionality in the systems. So the other thing that Salesforce did early on, in fact, it was, it was Sachi from, who we interviewed a couple of weeks or a couple of episodes ago, who was original part of the AppExchange, which is now over 7,000 apps. And some of them are complete apps in and of their own right. They run entirely within the Salesforce platform, yet Accounting Seed is one that comes to mind. That’s a full-blown accounting system inside Salesforce. And then there’s some, some other project management tools like TaskRay, again, 100% in Salesforce. And you talked about the screens earlier and what some of these third-party vendors do is they, they use Visualforce to just paint their own screen, so it doesn’t even look like a, a CRM interface. So, huge third-party ecosystem, not just the consultants, but the ISVs. Now, HubSpot, again, they’re catching up. They’ve got, I counted, I went on their app marketplace, they’ve got about 17, 1,700 apps. But I think some of them are are more light, on balance, they’re probably a little bit more lightweight. They’re, I don’t think they’ve got, I don’t think Accounting Seed, for example, exists for HubSpot. What, what have you seen in terms of sophisticated things that you can plug right into the…
SAM: Well, one of the most popular pharma CRMs is actually built on Salesforce. And so, you know, when you, it, it’s, it’s being sold as a separate CRM. It’s not being sold as Salesforce. But when you go look at it, and when you find out what the, you know, again, when you start looking at the technology underneath it, it’s basically using Salesforce as a platform to build stuff. I think that, that was the key thing. I think, I think Salesforce realized that they needed to build a platform, you know, force.com, right? And, and what, what, what they did was they built a, a very usable development environment, and a lot of people jumped on that, and those became the, a lot of the marketplace apps. You know, and, and because the Salesforce sales, um, blanking on, the, the Salesforce sales modules, whatever, they can be embedded right on top of, of anything that was already built on force.com. So, it was, it was just a smart move. HubSpot’s not, not at, I think they’re trying to get to that platform. They’ve got that, that, serve, not service hub, um, oh, I’m gonna look it up, apologize.
STEVE: I think they got an Operations…
SAM: Operations Hub or something like that, yeah. And, and they’re trying to get there by linking everything together through that. But Operations Hub is, you know, not quite at the, at the linkage level that, you know, force.com is.
STEVE: Right, yeah. Yeah. Now, the, was it, was the pharma comp, pharma software company Viva? Is that…
SAM: Viva, yeah.
STEVE: Okay. So, the other thing is, the other interesting thing is because I think of where HubSpot came from, they were more of a freemium type model, and I think they’ve been freemium almost since day one, and they’ve, they’ve retained that. So you can get started, it’s not just a trial as with Salesforce. You can, you can use the basics of, I think, all of the hubs for for no charge. Now, of course, you’re going to run into walls left, right, and center and, you know, get those classic, “Oh, if you want to do that, click here to to upgrade.” But the fact remains you can, you can use it, you know, at infinitum at no charge.
SAM: But the other thing is, you could mix and match, which I always thought was…
STEVE: Oh, yeah, you can, you can do enterprise of, of one hub and business of another hub, right?
SAM: Right. You can actually do enterprise of a set of users and freemium as a set of users under sales.
STEVE: Oh.
SAM: And all they don’t, they, you know, so let’s say you have someone on the loading dock who just has to look up addresses, you can give them a free license.
STEVE: Interesting.
SAM: So that I thought was a brilliant idea of theirs.
STEVE: Yeah. Now, now Salesforce, they sort of, they, they more followed the enterprise pricing model, probably of Oracle, where Benioff came from. Now, I have to give it to Salesforce, they’re very, they’ve been very generous with their, their 111 model in terms of giving time and money and resources to, you know, the community and many places. But they don’t give software away for free. You’ve got to pay, you’ve got to pay for anything you, you use with them. And like HubSpot, you, you know, you, you, you do hit guardrails when you’re using the lower versions, and at some point, you might have to switch from, and it’s not called professional anymore, they re, they re-labeled it. But a lot of companies start with what was professional and say, “Well, wait a minute, you know, if we want to do that, we’ve got to go to enterprise.” So their goal is, of course, to get as many companies to enterprise or, or higher as they can, and, of course, cross-sell. MuleSoft, I think, comes up a lot in conversations, Tableau. So…
SAM: Right. Which are separate products. You know, they were acquisitions, they’re, they’re separate products that plug into their infrastructure.
STEVE: Yeah. Yeah. And, and HubSpot, they’ve done a few acquisitions here and there, but their philosophy seems to be if we want something, let’s build it. So, let’s, let’s build social media management. Let’s build calendaring. Let’s not integrate with Calendly. Let’s build our own calendar. And, you know, as, as a customer, you probably have to accept a few trade-offs for using some of their internal functionality versus using a, a more robust third party. But when it’s part of the platform, it makes it a lot easier. It’s all one design interface. You can get the metrics. You, you know, if someone schedules a, a meeting that using the, you know, the custom meeting functionality, that shows up in your reports. So, a lot of, a lot of benefits to having everything included within the, within the system. So, AI, one of your, one of your areas. I justwanted to note, I’m sure most people have heard of this because HubSpot, HubSpot’s marketing is so good, but just last week, they branded their entire AI offering Breeze, and they actually got a trademark for the word Breeze. So, I don’t know what that means. We can’t, we can’t say Breeze?
SAM: But not, not in the context of AI.
STEVE: It’s a windy AI. So, anyway, you, you’ve got some data on AI, some of the modules. Maybe we can dig a little bit into those. And the only other thing, high-level thing I’ll mention, which was a big feature at this year’s Dreamforce, was apparently the launch of Agentforce and the capability for admins to build their own agents like chatbots and so forth. And it seems like they’re downplaying Einstein, the, the term Einstein a little bit. They’re calling it the Einstein Trust Layer, but now they’re calling it Salesforce Artificial Intelligence, not Salesforce Einstein at the high level. But anyway, what are some of, what, what are some of the things that you’ve, capabilities that you’ve found in the respective systems regarding AI functionality?
SAM: Well, the, the, it was, you know, your basic, they have all the basic analytics down. So it’s, you know, your next best offer, your next best action. Um, you know, the predictive, predictive lead scoring, predictive analytics. They have that down. That was original Einstein. Um, there’s some of that that’s coming out of HubSpot now as well, just not as deep. Um, they do predictive lead scoring, uh, they have a conversational chatbot. Um, they, they will do the next best offer, the next best recommendation. Uh, they do have AI-based data cleaning, too, where it’ll look and say, “We think we found a duplicate here. What do you want to do with it?” which is sort of a nice feature. Um, the, um, the, the, one of the bigger differences is that Salesforce’s AI is a little open. So if you want to build your own predictive analytics or your, your own AI-driven, um, um, uh, process models, you can do that with Salesforce. Uh, it’s, it’s less customizable in HubSpot. Uh, you know, again, going back to the fact that, uh, you know, their, their implementing channel is, is, is needs more struc, needs less features or more configuration features rather than, than developer features. Um, and so it’s, it’s simpler to use and it’s got an easier user experience, but it doesn’t have the same level of power. Um, and then, uh, the AIs in HubSpot also let you build content around marketing. Um, there’s some of that in Salesforce, but that was a big push, um, for, um, uh, HubSpot. And then, frankly, they, they both link into generative AIs that everyone’s doing right now. Uh, uh, both of them have plugins to the, what I would call the basic generative AIs that are on the marketplace.
STEVE: And Salesforce does pride itself in the ability to both reach out to the the big player generative AIs, but also to keep things fully contained within their, their structure and making sure that AI doesn’t, uh, misbehave or, or create any, you know, jeopardize customer relationships, which is the biggest concern with AI. You know, if you start sending mass emails out within CRM and you promise something you can’t deliver on or you misrepresent something to a lot of people, that, that could cause big, big problems for a, for a CRM customer. So, so Salesforce…
SAM: Well, the other big challenge with AI right now is, um, with the public generative AIs, you’re giving them, with every question you give them or every time they you process data, it’s taking that data and turning that into the next answer for somebody else. And anybody who’s in the medical or health field, anybody who’s in the financial services field, they can’t do that. They can’t, they have to have AIs for that are secure and limited to them. And so there’s a whole set of techniques now that HubSpot, I mean, and HubSpot, Salesforce supports, where it can create a GenAI and then make a copy of that GenAI and make that private just for a specific customer. So if you feed it a bunch of customer data, it never actually leaves your own AI engine.
STEVE: Yeah. Yeah. So you, so everything is fully siloed.
SAM: Correct. Otherwise, none of the financial service companies would use it.
STEVE: Exactly. Or health, yeah, health, which is a pretty big market for them, you know.
STEVE: Yeah. Well, even, even before AI, if you had to comply with, with HIPAA or some other regulatory compliance standard, you, you’re probably better off with Salesforce because of data, you know, field encryption and and other things that Salesforce probably still has an advantage over HubSpot on. So the other thing that maybe ties a little bit into, into AI is the business process automation tools. I did, I did talk about those earlier, the HubSpot workflows. And by the way, one of the disadvantages of a system that’s been around longer is that they’ve got baggage. So, so Salesforce has been working on sunsetting their original, you know, their original process builder and what was the other one? Anyway, they’re, they’re fine, they finally announced they’re not going to support their legacy process automation tools as of, I think, the end of next year, and everything’s going to have to move to the new HubSpot workflows. And I mentioned that they’re, they’re pretty, they’re pretty robust and they’re not designed for your, your junior-level administrator. Salesforce flows are easier. HubSpot has built-in sequences as part of the marketing. So if you’re a salesperson and you did a presentation and someone went dark, you can just change the status on the contact’s record and and they’ll be enrolled in a, in a sequence all within HubSpot functionality. I think if you have, if you want to do that in Salesforce, you either have to build it with tools and makes it more difficult to maintain or you need to use a third-party product. So that’s another one of those. I think they’ve got something called engagement cadences, but I, I don’t know if that’s an extra thing you have to purchase and if it’s as easy to configure as the, the HubSpot sequences. But anyway, those are, those are some of the high-level differences. Any other high-level differences you can that we haven’t touched on?
SAM: I think the user experience. I know, um, I know that, uh, when I use HubSpot, um, I find it, uh, I don’t use it a lot, so I’ll point that out right away. I, so I, I was, I’m searching for where I have to find the right thing. And so for me, it’s a little frustrating. But for my marketing manager, she loves it. She knows where everything’s at. Uh, it’s a simple, it’s a simpler UI. Everything is literally in two or three different spots. So, you know, I think the user experience for, um, uh, the, it’s target audience, which was primarily marketers, uh, is probably a much better experience, whereas I think Salesforce, you, it, it is a, it, it, it can be made simple, but it, but also it’s, it’s up to the developers who build it out to decide how simple they want to make it because you can really make it completely different than you would expect. Um, and they, you know, and so I would say, I would give HubSpot the edge on the UI, uh, but I would also give Salesforce the edge on the ability to customize it. So if I’m, you know, like, if I have to come back and say, “I would recommend HubSpot more for a smaller organization, right, who has the less, less skilled technical labor force, um, and primarily if they want marketing because I think HubSpot’s marketing’s got a slight notch on, uh, Salesforce.” That would be my recommendation. But on a larger enterprise company who needs a lot of customizations, who has the professional staff or can work with a consulting company, Salesforce has the edge.
STEVE: Yeah. And the other way I was going to characterize the UI was that in Salesforce, at least out of the box, the, the UI is fields-dominated with activities secondarily. And the HubSpot UI is activities first with just a subset of fields, you know, relegated to the left-hand column or sidebar. So HubSpot tends to be more, more of a product that’s geared toward activity flows, or at least it’s trying to guide the users more, more in that direction. And it does that quite well. So if you’re a company, let’s say you’re a SAS startup and you’re just doing a lot of pursuit of customers, you don’t have huge data collection and manipulation requirements, you’re just trying to market and sell, HubSpot’s definitely a much easier point, point of entry and may indeed work for many years before you need to even consider anything more sophisticated. So anyway, with that, uh, one more plug I wanted to give, because we haven’t done a lot of plugging in the history of the show. I, we’ve done, we’ve done some Starfish plugging, but at CRM Switch, we do have a practice in independent CRM evaluation for companies that are looking to move from a homegrown system to, uh, an enterprise system to address multiple departments, or looking to move from a leg, some sort of legacy vendor system to a new system. We can help with that and make sure that companies get off to the right foot on their CRM evaluation and eventually their implementation because they’ve done all the, the groundwork. Hey, Sam, you think, you know what I might do? I might append our human podcast here with the one that I had generated automatically just so people can hear the difference. Do you think I should do that?
SAM: Sounds like an interesting plan.
STEVE: Okay, I’m going to tack that on the end. So listeners, after we sign off here, stay on if you want to hear the, the AI version of this same topic. It’s pretty, you’ll find it pretty fascinating, I’m sure. Not as good as us, not as funny as us, as Sam mentioned, but you’ll find it pretty interesting.
SAM: And if it’s better, let us know and we’ll just do them AI from now on.
STEVE: Exactly. Give us five. All right, thank you, Sam. Thanks everyone.
SAM: Take care, Steve.